Gazette Takes Michael Weinstein to Task. Again.
Barry Noreen of the Colorado Springs Gazette, local to the US Air Force Academy, wrote on “diversity awareness” at the US Air Force Academy — and managed to explain how Michael Weinstein has been a detriment to that cause.
Under a constant barrage by the likes of Mikey Weinstein…the academy has been under a microscope. Scrutiny isn’t bad, but Weinstein’s vitriol has been counterproductive.
“I find this institution shell-shocked at having any kind of discussion of religion,” [Chaplain (Col) Robert] Bruno said.
Rather than help USAFA generate a climate of religious freedom, Weinstein’s public attacks on Christian exercise at the US Air Force Academy have done the opposite. Noreen notes the “walking on egg shells” environment Weinstein has engendered at USAFA is counter to what an academic institution should encourage.
The last time the Gazette criticized Weinstein, they were threatened with legal action. (Though a perennial critic himself, Weinstein apparently has a sensitive disposition…)
Noreen’s article opens with an astute observation of the changed sensitivity to religion in public life and the military:
The Cadet Chapel is arguably the most identifiable structure at the Air Force Academy, but if the institution was being built today for the first time, that probably wouldn’t be the case.
Interestingly, what was once considered an integral part of American culture is now just as likely to be considered offensive.
“Noreen notes the “walking on egg shells” environment Weinstein has engendered at USAFA is counter to what an academic institution should encourage.”
He nailed it.
Isn’t the fact that everyone else (ie non-Christians) have had to walk on egg shells up until this point worth something? I’m sorry that the Christians at the USAFA now feel they have to walk on egg shells (presumably in order not to be offensive to other beliefs), but I’m sure the non-Christians feel much better now that everyone is on the same egg shell playing field.
@Nate
Actually Nate, Barry didn’t “nail it.” The AFA command structure and Chaplaincy are walking on eggshells not because of Mikey but rather their own wrong doings which have been exposed by Mikey and MRFF.
You see the Academy chain of command has had it pretty much their own own way with a succession of Dominionist Christian commanders and a rigid program of Dominion Christian proselytizing, that is until Mikey caught up with them in 2005.
Since then, much inappropriate and often unconstitutional activities have been uncovered and despite the weak denials of the principals involved, bona fide proof of pervasive Christian based improprieties have had to be addressed all the way up to the Pentagon.
And of course the principal offenders are pussy-footing it around to evade the glaring spotlight of discovery.
One has only to read the years long ongoing narrative published in the Gazette and Colorado Springs Independent which chronicle many of the misdeeds to get a clear picture of the religious hegemony cadets have to face in addition to the difficult military and academic curricula they face.
What exacerbates this religious hegemony is the way it has gone to the dark side and has turned what might have been some light hearted Christian banter into the grave and destructive evangelizing of one religion over another which as we all know is prohibited by the US Constitution.
The power vested in the senior officer corps at the AFA has, along with their oaths to uphold and defend the US Constitution, has been methodically violated. Around them they have drawn an almost impenitrable circle of denial, impenitrable, that is until the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and it’s founder, Mikey Weinstein’s dedicated inquiries.
As an MRFF Volunteer, I was privy to much of the deperate pleas for help from the Cadet Wing, faculty and permanent station personnel. Some of their complaints have been aired but the preponderance originate from those who would suffer career destroying repercussions if identified. You can rest assured that once our young service men and women are out from under the dreadful clutches of Dominionists a panopoly of shocking events will be made known.
It must be remembered Barry that cockroaches scurry for cover when the light is turned on.
Somewhere along the way somebody forgot that the armed forces and its training facilities and service academies were to remain religion neutral as the constitution requires.
@Richard
You misunderstand the situation. Even the cadets are “walking on eggshells.” Surely you’re not going to ascribe evil to the entire cadet wing, are you?
@JD
No, Jd, only to the number who have succumbed to the siren call of Christian Dominionism and who, like their Nazi predecessors are noted for asking their fellow cadets: “Papers Please!”
Richard, we’ve heard these arguments before, and we’ve refuted them. When’s the last time you sat in an AFA classroom? Or a SAR? Maybe the coffee shop? Please don’t try to tell me what’s going on at my school. I have a first-person perspective. As JD pointed out, cadets are walking on eggshells. There is little to no discussion about religion.
Are there any examples of “career destroying repercussions” for people who aired complaints?
You said, “Somewhere along the way somebody forgot that the armed forces and its training facilities and service academies were to remain religion neutral as the constitution requires.”
What we are now is religion absent. That’s not a good place to be.
@Nate
Nate,
You talk as if religion is banned at the AFA. It occurs to me that services are still held in the Chapel and one can still, as Jesus proclaimed: “Go into your closet, close the door and pray silently. God will hear you.”
So, if you can still pray and attend the fellowship of chapel services and consult with Chaplains where’s the absense of religion?
Now if you are talking about the dog and pony shows of Dominion Christian overt public
displays I think their absense is a step in the right direction.
And do not be fooled. Elements of the Cadet Wing, coached and indoctrinated by local extreme Christian organizations and churches still ply their Uber-Evangelical trade to lower class cadets.
And is not the Warrick Paternal Shepherding Cult, AKA Cadets for Christ” still in operation? Are not orhanizations such as The Navigators, Campus Crusade for Christ Military Mission, Focus on the Family, and others given fairly unlimited access to Cadets? Even in the dorms?
No, I think religion still exists but in a more normal sense. And it needs to get even more normal.
@Richard
Richard, I suppose you’re referring to Matthew 6:6, which says, “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” It’s good that Jesus says we can just go to our room, because closets at the Academy are hard to fit into. But of course, you wouldn’t know that because everything you know about the Academy is second-hand information.
If you’re going to quote scripture, you should probably actually read it. Then you would understand that there’s more to Christianity than praying and talking to chaplains and going to chapel services. A lot more.
Proof?
You’re referring to SPIRE groups, which stands for Special Programs In Religious Education. There is no Focus on the Family SPIRE group. There’s no need to use buzzwords for other groups; you can call them by their name. All SPIRE groups are completely voluntary, and leaders are willing to mentor cadets. There is also a Freethinkers SPIRE group, and a Pagan/Earth-Centered group. Their leaders also have access to cadets.
A better way to put it is that cadets have access to SPIRE leaders. I’ve seen a SPIRE leader in the dorms about twice, when he was with me. No non-cadets are allowed in the dorm rooms with doors closed, ever.
@Richard
Notice I didn’t mention the chapel or chaplains in my reply. Religion is absent from the classroom, from the squadron. Cadets and officers are afraid to talk about, even though it’s one of the five pillars we talked about NCLS. These five pillars (mental, emotional, physical, relational, and spiritual, I think) are essential to living a stable life. At USAFA, we only talk about four of them.
As future officers, we need to understand religion and be able to discuss it. We need to know how to make decisions about religious accommodation, and we need to know that we don’t have to hide our religion under a bowl (Matthew 5:15).
Nate: Perhaps you should examine some of the other Christian versions of scripture.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus said: “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
Also exclusive religion, such as the overwhelming evangelical sort does not belong in the classroom apart from comparative relgion class. It is best that cadets practice their faith in a proper venue such as the chapel and not openly during Air Force business hours in the squadron or any other level. Single religion prayer meetings belong in church not the dormitory. You would assign Christianity powers it does not have irrespective of its majority. You appear to favor, advance, elevate and prefer Christianity to the exclusion other religions which, at the least, indicates a recommendation which falls afoul of the Constitution.
There’s nothing wrong with discussing spirituality which is a generic term. Spirituality can be one of the five pillars. But all too often, the fifth pillar becomes Christianity.
The “Great Commission” (Matthew 28:16-20 NIV) is a powerful motivator and is stressed far more often than other less stringent commands. It has become the rallying cry for many extreme evangelist groups. It does not say go forth and recommend that all nations become desciples or suggest all nations become desciples but rather MAKE DESCIPLES of all nations and Baptize them all in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit. It is clear that those who are being proselytized don’t have a lot to say about it. This form of agressive proselytizing has and continues to take place in the military. This may not give you many sleepless nights but I can assure you that there are those who carry the fear that unless they comply they will be cast aside.
The Great Commission does not comply with UCMJ or Constitutional provision as written and does not belong in the Armed Forces and all attempts to convert, upgrade or enhance the acceptance of any particular religion must be terminated.
There is a proclivity in many to attain powers that create religious supremacy. I see this attempt as being very close indeed to the transition to the Christian Supermen or “Mensch” much sought after by the Nazis in W.W.II.
Religion in the armed forces belongs in the appropriate venue and no attempt to bring it into the ranks via command centered and coercive proselytizing should be allowed. Period.
@Richard
So you’re saying I can’t practice my religion in my room, and I can’t pray with my roommate. That sounds like a law respecting an establishment of religion. So much for religious freedom. I’ve never heard of rule that restricts when or where I can pray and practice my religion. That’s ridiculous.
I’m a Christian, so I talk about Christianity because I’m speaking from experience. How does favoring Christianity in the comments on a blog post run afoul of the Constitution?
I assume by “desciple” you mean “disciple.” And again, if you’re going to quote scripture, you should actually read it. I believe the rich young ruler had plenty to say about it. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything. And He said, “Anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.”
That means people in the Armed Forces can’t practice Christianity. Do you realize what you’re saying?
I’m unaware of any coercive proselytizing or people trying to create religious supremacy at USAFA, and I’m unaware of any place where Jesus advocated making disciples in a coercive way.
Nate, you said: “I’m unaware of any coercive proselytizing or people trying to create religious supremacy at USAFA, and I’m unaware of any place where Jesus advocated making disciples in a coercive way.”
Perhaps you might consider Gen. Jerryy Boykin, Mr. Robert Varney, Executive Director of “Christian Embassy,”Major Generals Peter Sutton and Gen. Jack Catton, Brigadier Generals Vincent Brooks and Robert Caslen, who appeared in a video tape in the Pentagon without permission extolling the virtues of Christianity and directing subordinates to embrace Christianity.
Also you may have to open your ears and eyes to these possibilities and not just ignore the pleas of others to validate your faith.
I am saying that people in the military, who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of different faiths should not elect to dominate the religious sphere with their own beliefs. Rather, they should withdraw as opportunity presents to their own enclave and provide opportunities for others.
Yours is not the pratice of Christianity in te military but the predominance of Christianity in the military.
Nate, you said: I’m a Christian, so I talk about Christianity because I’m speaking from experience. How does favoring Christianity in the comments on a blog post run afoul of the Constitution?
Because one who is in the military or has official access to military participants:
Supreme Court ruling Lemon Vs. Kurzman (1971)
Government, including the armed forces may not advance, prefer, elevate, recommend or proselytize one religion over another or religion over non-religion.
If you are, in fact, military personnel or deal in proximity to millitary personnel , you are bound by this ruling.
@Richard
Not only is that a gross misapplication of the Supreme Court ruling, it’s just plain asinine.
A member of the military cannot stand in front of his unit and use his command influence to demand they convert to his religion.
That does not mean he cannot head to his church and teach children’s Sunday School, or try to convince a willing peer of the value of his faith, or stand on the street corner and thump his Bible — or “favor Christianity” on a blog. In fact, even the Air Force JAG said that last bit.
I know Lemon is your go-to court case, but seriously, would you at least read it and understand to what it applies before you just toss it out there? Spouting off like that makes you look foolish.
@JD
Is that all you’ve got? I misspelled disciple?
You will note that I said practicing religion in the proper venue in the military was just fine. This includes sunday school for kids and services for adults.
All those activities you suggested were OK for military to do were correct. However, if you are in uniform and outside the venue of church or chapel or identify yourself as an armed forces member you are still subject to Lemon. Do not mistake the fact that you have gotten away with such professions as proof that they are OK. As a senior officer you probably won’t run into objection. That is why MRFF exists. To help protect and speak for those who cannot protect and speak for themselves.
And don’t foget, all this stuff really hinges on intent. From where I stand there are no innocent misapplications. Dominionist Christians intend to undertake the great commission in the military because their first allegiance is to their religion and not their country. Religious doctrine is obeyed first, military orders second. You know whereof I speak. “God, Family Country” has replaced “Duty, Honor Country.” It appears that “country” in the former is getting short shrift.
I have no doubt that Dominionists in the armed forces are likely to obey what they considered an order from God before obeying a legal order from chain of command.
For you and Nate, it appears that your primary interests are not in serving in the martial aspect of the armed services but rather in advancing your belief systems. In that regard you have a Christian Fighter Squadron employing Christian fighter pilots not an American Fighter Squadron with American fighter pilots. This smacks of Christian Nationalism.
Why not go for Chaplain or stop wasting taxpayer money, resign and join a monastery? There’s still time to be ordained. It is possible that your attitudes and actions are antithesis to good order and discipline?
BTW, I do not, for one minute, question your patriotism; only your judgment.
@Richard
No, you’re not. No matter how much you close your eyes and wish it to be true, it does not change the truth.
Gotten away with what? As mentioned above, the JAG already weighed in on this, and they disagreed with you. That will be published this week, since you seem to have missed it. What citations do you have to support your accusations the Air Force lawyers are wrong?
What do you know of any person’s “martial aspects” of service? You would belittle a person’s military service when you know nothing about it. How condescending.
Unlike you, I don’t presume to know enough about you to analyze your judgment. Based on the words I’ve seen you use here and other places, however, I do sometimes question your sanity.
“They” are not out to get you, Richard. Liberty is something to be celebrated. If you have concerns, feel free to practice your own liberty, rather than demanding that the government restrict someone else’s.
As an aside, I’ve grown used to your jaded and baseless personal attacks on me. Do not presume to use this site to make personal attacks on others.
@JD
Apologies to anyone who feels that I have slighted him. But how about others’ personal attacks on me? I’ve been put through the ringers many times on this board without so much as a mild reproach from you. Does questioning a persons sanity count as a personal attack?
Government can restrict your liberties if the practice thereof is in conflict with acceptable constitutional provision. Remember one man’s liberty may well be another’s tyranny. If one’s liberty exceeds the parameters of law in which it is to operate it becomes something else entirely. There are no absolute liberties.
And do not attribute to insanity what may reasonably be explained by exasperation.
Speaking of insanity, in church last week the priest was mentioning the folks at Bob Jones University and how Bob Jones III called the Pope the “AntiChrist” and dismissed Catholicism as a “Satanic counterfeit.” I googled Bob Jones University and was not surprised to see that it’s M.O. was a bit on the psychotic side. Here’s hoping your site does not slide down that path.
@Richard
People have criticized you for your conspiracy theories. That’s a far cry from your (unsupported) accusations of illicit or illegal conduct. Present your position if you must, but your blanket accusations toward people about whom you know very little are uncalled for.
“Exasperation” hardly explains why you think a secret Christian cabal is trying to take over the world. And, no, the words “Campus Crusade!” and “James Dobson!” are not “evidence.”
@Richard
That wasn’t JD that pointed out that you misspelled disciple, that was me. And that wasn’t all I had, because I went on to talk about the rich young ruler… apparently you ignored that, because you made no reply.
You did talk about a video some people made at the Pentagon, but provided no source or link to the video. You didn’t mention when it happened or how it’s related to USAFA, which is odd, because I said I was unaware of coercive proselytizing at USAFA.
You did say, “Yours is not the pratice of Christianity in te military but the predominance of Christianity in the military.” I’m not sure what that means. My what?
Richard, I do want to live my life according to God’s will – that is my highest priority. The Constitution does not tell me how to order my priorities. Before I joined the military, and before I committed at USAFA, I thought long and hard about whether a not a Christian should join the military. I read in Romans 13 that God uses the state to bring judgement on wrongdoers.
Notice how that works: God uses the state. My military orders come from the state, not God. Of course, if I felt an order was unlawful, I would disobey it and await further orders. Read carefully: I would never do anything outside the scope of my orders from the state.
Does that make sense?
Again, why don’t you read the Gospel of John, front to back? Then you might begin to understand what Christianity really is.
Gentlemen,
I can see that our conversations, although enjoyable from a debate standpoint, have deteriorated into a “he said, she said” match. For my part I am going to try and be more to the point and provide the links and others materials you talk about.
Nate, you asked what a video tape featuring various Air Force and and other officers and officials had to do with the AFA. Well since the Dominionist Cabal is military wide It simply confirms that the shady activities take place at every level.
Here are two links. One of which is th IG investigation of the Pentagon tape and the other to the Campus crusade’s AFA Video which was allowed to be taped and released with some very damagaing statements. It was exposed by ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2007/12/evangelist-vide/
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/military.html#video
Let me know how you feel about them and their propriety.
Good Lord! Now Nate is proselytizing me! You guys just can’t resist slipping in the old “read the Gospel of John and find out what Christianity really is, routine. Give it a rest.
To be perfectly honest, I don’t believe either of you guys would disobey a legal secular order or opt for a religious order from a superior you know to be a serious Christian under normal circumstances.
I do think however, that in a major calamity such as Atomic War there might be a bit of a leaning toward the religious aspect when one believes he is close to death and believes seriously in the end times RE: The Rapture, Armageddon, The False Prophet, The Anti-Christ, etc. It might be more difficult to maintain a semblance of order under those circumstances.
But please do not mistake my often rambling remarks for any denigration of your military skills, combat readiness, abilities, proficiency, etc.
Now I know pretty much what JD does but I have no idea what you do Nate. Whether you are still a cadet, a faculty member, permanent party, janitor. LOL. Perhaps you will inform me.
Richard, both of the links you included are five years old. The Academy has entirely new leadership, which makes your links irrelevant to today’s Cadet Wing and irrelevant to the topic at hand – that cadets are “walking on eggshells,” afraid to even mention religion.
The reason I asked you to read the Gospel of John is so that you can understand what you’re fighting against. Sun Tsu recommends knowing your enemy. And while I hope you don’t consider me an enemy, it’s good advice. Whether or reading John becomes more than an investigation into what you’re fighting against is up to you and God.
Although it could be inferred from my comments on this and other posts, I’ll say I’m a firstie.
Nate, thanks for the info.
Is there a statute of limitations on evil? Those old videos are just as pertinent today as they were then. They exemplify what is an on going problem in the military and what moderate practitioners and non-religious people face in many training venues and even combat zones.
A Chaplain in Afghanistan violated General Order #1
Sorry. Don’t know how that got posted.
Continue: which prohibits proselytizing locals.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/05/bibles-destroye/
Marine Commander attends baptism in ocean off coast of California of Marines leaving for Mid EAST.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×8885206
So Firstie I take it, means First Classman? You seem to be intelligent beyond your years. I would have sworn you were at least O-4. I believe you will rise quickly in rank and position. Had you thought of becoming a Chaplian? I know the Armed Forces is a tad top heavy with Fundamentalist Christian Evangelist Chaplains but I’m sure with your eagerness you could get appointed.
I am quite familiar with what a moderate dissenter faces today from Christianity as a whole and individually from a raft of practitioners who emulate Joshua and his gang of twnty thousand. To them religion has become an enablement to exercise violence, control people and ignore constitutional provision. This is especially disturbing to me as I see the oaths taken to uphold and defend the constitution so easily abrogated.
I will send more links as I remember them or run accross them.
@Richard
Both of your stories were already discussed.
No chaplain violated General Order Number One. No chaplain advocated the distribution of the Bibles to which you reference, nor were they distributed; in fact, the Chaplains contributed to the proper course of action, which was that the Bibles in local Afghan languages not be distributed to non-Christians. This was discussed in the larger discussion on LtCol Hensley. The military confiscated and burned the Bibles, because that’s what they do with the trash. Hmm. Where have I heard that before?
You’re really going to bring up the Marines’ baptisms again? That’s perhaps the clearest example of Weinstein asserting members of the military cannot exercise their religion. If you ever wanted to hurt your cause, you’ve just done it.
Your “examples” are nothing more than your own mischaracterizations and belief that freedom should be restricted, not celebrated.
Provide an example. That is, an example of someone who has committed violence, or who has actually abrogated their oath (not just in your opinion by what they say, but by their actions). You can’t do it, can you?
Where freedom is celebrated, ALL freedoms must be celebrated, secular as well as religious freedoms.
The story said a Chaplain violated Gen. Order #1. I believe it after watching the video and reading the narrative.
Every principal involved in allowing the Campus Crusade for Chriist Militray mission AFA video and the Christian Embassy Pentagon Video violated their constitutional oaths.
It appears that Christian Doctrine trumps constitutional provision as far as you are concerned.
The United States, it’s government and people are in no way founded or based on the Christian religion. (George Washington). You would do well to understand and accept that.
@Richard
You need to reread that story. It said the opposite of what you think it said.
What part of an officer’s oath is violated by making a video?
You’re misquoting. That statement comes from the Treaty of Tripoli. It was signed under Adams, not Washington.
@Richard
Firstie does mean First Classman – a senior, in civilian college terms.
I have considered becoming a Chaplain, but I believe God has other plans for me.
Earlier, you said,
Old and ongoing are contradictory.
You may be familiar with a limited, yet exaggerated, number of so-called “Christians” (and by that I mean they are not really Christians). I cannot deny that Christians – true and untrue – make mistakes. But I do not see, nor do I believe I have ever seen, people abrogating their oaths.
You’ve mentioned the Nazis twice in this thread – do remember Dietrich Bonhoeffer and several of his devout Christian friends were intimately involved in more than one plot to kill Hitler and save Germany.
Nate, “Old and Ongoing” are not contradictory. I give you the “Old Testament.” Old but on- going. No?
Please remember, my focus and that of MRFF is on the Dominionist, not the everyday go-to- meeting moderate Christian. If you have not read Pat Robertson’s book “The Secret Kingdom'” then please do so as you will see much of what I have posted against contained therein. Pat is for a world Christian Kingdom preceded by a “Christisan America,” with a constitution replaced by Mosaic Law and world populations converted to Christianity and the dissenters cast into the “Lake of Fire.”
You may not be aware of this because every Christian speaks the same basic language but there are far more Jim Jones’s and David Koresh’e out there than Nates and JD’s.
Also, we must not make excuses for the “limited, yet exaggerated number of “so called Christians” as the expression goes “If you look like as Christian, speak like a Christian and walk like a Christian, you are a Christian. Hard for us to tell you apart.
Nate: May I also recommend that you reconsider the Chaplaincy. I think with your finely tuned Christian outlook you may find yourself in uncomfortable surroundings in a secular unit, tempted to make Christian outreach.
As firm as you are in your beliefs I see a less than productive career in any field other than the Chaplaincy. You may now be surrounded by like-thinking young men and women in a cloistered setting but after graduation and posting you may find yourself surrounded by those of a totally different calling.
True, but you can’t use old facts or old videos to prove that something is going on now. The fact that OT exists doesn’t prove that Christianity exists today, unless you consider prophesy proof. In the same way, your five-year-old videos don’t prove anything about what’s going on – or ongoing, as one could say – in the military today.
What I’m saying about “so called Christians” is that they actually don’t speak, act, or walk like a true Christian.
I thought you might as me to reconsider the chaplaincy. But that decision was made with the guidance of God. Besides, as you now know, I’m a firstie – which means I already have both AFSC and my first base assignment.
Let me assure you, USAFA is not a “cloistered setting.” It’s a college, with plenty of people “of a totally different calling.”
I didn’t come to the Air Force Academy to find comfort.
Well spoken, Nate. However I don’t agree that an old tape is not indicative of what is happening in the present. If I could I would show you the letters and calls of complaint from the AFA sent to MRFF, some four hundred to date.
Some complaints center on cadet to cadet proselytizing wherein the subjects are told that in addition to the God-based perks they will receive as born agains, they will be placed in duties and assignments along with others of similar beliefs. That’s what the Officer’s Christian Fellowship is all about.
In any case I wish you all the best in whatever endeavor you so choose. If one were to use JD as an example (I believe he is very similar to you in thought and deed) he has excelled using much of the religiojus philosophy you espouse. He is a consummate pilot, officer, leader and dedicated airman.
Now I think he has turned a blind eye to some if not much of the Dominionist shennanigans which may have negatively affected some folks in his purview. He, like you and others who take religion very seriously to tend to be a bit extroverted in that department.
I will continue to forward to you and JD any incidents that may arise vis a vis Christian Dominionism in the armed forces.
Now those could be representative of what’s happening in the present. Over what time period? How many were justified? How many attempted to address the situation with the individual or their chain of command, as the IG has required?
OCF is about fellowship for Christian officers, not assignments.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Notice how Richard can’t produce any evidence of cadets being forced to convert? Interesting isn’t it?
Frankie,
It is not a matter of registered converts. Your continued insistance on nubers of converts is ludicrous. It is the action not the reaction that we are concerned with. If there were no converts but a bunch of proselytizing that would be wrong, no? There is plenty of evidence but knowing what would happen to those who were disclosed keeps us from condemning them by releasing their confidential complaints.
I’m not sure you get this. But I have had a few lieutenants serve under me so I can see why. LOL
@Nate
Hi Nate,
To my knowledge, the complaints are spread over a period of several years with a majority of fairly recent filing. I suspect there would have been many more early complaints filed but MRFF was not generally known to be an advocate for individuals in 2005-6-7. As time passed more complainants knew of MRFF and how to contact them.
The complaints are received by E-Mail, USPS mail and phone call. Complainants at the Academy include Cadets, Permanent Party, Faculty and several in the command structure.
Each complaint is individually investigated and actions taken on those that require response. Some are simply informatonal others contain bona fide complaints and still others from parents or other relaitves of cadets. An example are those from parents over the Cadets for Christ hoopla.
The biggest problem, as I see it, is not the casual invitation to join you at church or passing out reading material to those who agree to accept them. The problem is if it goes even a little beyond that such as a superior officer making a suggestion that you join him at a Christian service or an E-Mail from a superintendent, commander or dean recommending a religious movie or flyers for a presentation at one of the local megachurches passed out during chow. There are many coercions, not all of which seem that bad to a practicing Christian. Many are under the radar.
An additional problem and a frequent subject in complaints is that fully 96% of the compainants are self identified as Christian. Many have been told they are not “Christian Enough” and are encouraged to become elevated to a more obedient and intense form of worship. The other four percent are a smattering of other religions, Atheists and Agnostics.
Now, in addition to complaint communications, each time an MRFF action is published MRFF receives a bunch of rather negative e-mails and letters and some phone calls from outraged “Christians” the majority of them being truly vile, insulting, obscene and less than erudite. A few are from truly concerned Christians who just need an explanation, a number of whom have turned into donating MRFF members.
The process of making complaints against officers for proselytizing through chain of command or IG procedures did not work well. Some were just side tracked because A. no commander wanted compliants on his or her record. B. Many in the chain are themselves Dominion oriented and put the Kaibosh on the complaints early. It’s the unwritten code. Thou shalt not make trouble for your superior. Those that do have often been made an example of.
I’m sure you or your Christian compadres have practiced a little outreach, shall we say. You could probably tell me more stories than I can tell you. LOL
Finally, some complaints speak of being accused of being unpatriotic and Un American if not an active Christian. Christian Nationalism is becoming pervasive in many military venues.
I honestly cannot stop laughing! Richard spends hours upon hours typing stuff he has no idea what he is talking about.
Once again, no numbers! ROFL! You would think something as vast and powerful and evil as the big Christian movement he claims would show the scores of military personnel who were force to convert. See, it’s easy to claim things behind a shroud of secrecy…but when you ask for numbers, you get Richard rambling on and on and on.
Also, Richard says he is concerned about the “action, not the reaction”. REALLY? Think about that statement Richard… Do you apply that same principle to other things in your life? hmmmmmm
Richard…once again, you spout lies about the IG system. But, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt if you can provide facts that A) no commander wanted complaints on his/her record B) many in the IG chain are themselves “Dominion oriented and put a Kaibosh on the complaints early”.
Now is your chance to prove that the IG system doesn’t work because of your charges…
Bottom line………. pilot … quit shoving your faith down cadets throats…you want to believe in the sky Daddy, fine……don’t FORCE others to ….
Frankie, are you a foreign national? You seem to be having a tough time understanding English.
It is not the number of conversions made but rather the number of attempts. In addition, conversion is a very small part of the Dominion Christian agenda in the armed forces. Dominionists are mainly interested in Christians who can be upgraded to a more obedient and pliable level of Christianity with the express purpose of forming an all Christian Fighting Force with which tio undertake world conquest and conversion of world populations to Christianity. Those who do not comply are scheduled for the “Lake of Fire.”
So, in the military it is primarily upgrading Christians who are not “Christian enough.” In world conquest it is the coversion of all non-Christians, atheists and agnostics. Try to stay with me, OK?
It is all laid out for you in Pat Robertson’s book, “The Secret Kingdom.” The whole Dominion Christian agenda, how America would be converted to Theocracy, The abrogation of the US Constitution and installation of Mosaic Law as the national platform.
The danger here is that Dominion Christianity is the single most insidious thing that has threatened America in our history. Worse than all the wars, conflicts and any other threats. This is treason from withing hiding behind a Christian mask. Dominionism is powerful and extreme and in it’s advanced stages makes Islamic Jihad look like a school picnic.
Mr. Robertson believes that only Christian men should serve in government and that women are never to be in a position to teach or supervise men. They must also “submit graciously” to their husbands in all things. Adultresses, Homosexuals, Heretics, Blasphemer’s and Sassy Childen would be put to death immediately, no trial necessary.
Non Christians, Atheists and Agnostics would be given a chance to convert before being killed.
Mr. Robertsons conclusions are supported by many other Christian leaders almost all of whom are Evangelical Christian Dominionists. John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Richard Roberts, Benny Hinn, Jerry Falwell Jr., Jimmy Swaggert, Coral Ridge Ministry’s Rev. Tullian Tchividjian and his head Homosexual fighter Robert Knight, a veteran in these battles. He wants to reignite the culture wars.
So it takes people of real vigilance to try to head off what is coming and that’s what MRFF is trying to do. It’s hard because many Chnristians just don’t like to have their God’s name dragged into religious conflict. But Actually it is the dominionists who give Christianity a black eye.
Richard, I’ve seen none of this in my four years here. Any proof of any of this, or any recent events?
Hi Nate,
The E-Mails and flyer incidents were several years ago in the days of Johnny Weida but I use them only as an example of what is unacceprtaable. It’s like using the Holocaust as an example of political and religous hegemony even though it was some time ago. It did happen and could happen again unless we join the Jews in saying “Never again.”
The officer suggesting a subordinate attend Christian services off-base was fairly recent. The subordinate’s and Officer’s name are being withheld pending the outcome.