US Marine Base Hosts Secular Summer Camp
When members of the US military have organized events and celebrations of their faith, a few atheists in the military have complained that religion is being favored and have demanded the military give them a platform to mock their fellow troops’ faith. As has previously been noted, more than once, they fail to honestly admit that secular events are actually the norm.
In another of the many examples, the US Marine base at Camp Lejeune, NC, recently hosted the YMCA’s Summer Kids Club:
Children gathered around a table and busily collected materials while they crafted art during the Summer Kids Club hosted by the Armed Services YMCA…
“This is fantastic because it gives children something to do after the school year,” said…a military spouse who attended the workshop with her daughter. “I have older kids who love coming here for the art and science classes. It’s hard to find something age appropriate. I really appreciate services like this and these events are within our budget.”
Again, the military repeatedly opens its doors for non-religious clubs, summer camps, events, and gatherings. It is admirable that the US military partners with local organizations to provide support for its troops and their families. It is also admirable when it allows its religious troops to choose to use their resources to do similar things.
Despite claims by some atheists, that’s not illegal. That’s American.
YMCA?
Secular?
If only they had some CLUE in their name..
The YMCA does secular things all the time.
I see Donalbain beat me to it.
@Chris Rodda
You mean beat you to saying something foolish? Their official name is “the Y.” Are you prejudiced against the letter before Z?
Oh, you meant what their old acronym (which is still commonly used) stood for. (Your penchant for repeating obsolete information continues.) So because they once had the word “Christian” in their name, their conduct is automatically religious, even if their conduct isn’t…religious? That logic will take you somewhere, but not anywhere near the truth.
So much for observing someone’s conduct, eh? I suppose you think their Summer Kids Club was only for “men” too.
While I realize the MRFF has difficulty doing this (because name-calling is so much more effective in bringing in donations), try to rise above labels and talk about conduct. Would you care to describe what in the “summer camp” made it anything other than a secular event? Perhaps you found something in their Thought for the Day. You must have found something, right?
If you’ve got an issue with the Y, you’ve got an issue with the MRFF ally Americans United. Weinstein got an award from a group that used to be known as Protestants and other Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. Why that name? They were organizing against Catholics after their Supreme Court “win.” Unlike “the Y,” they don’t mention the “old name” on their own history page, though they used it for nearly a quarter century. And by MRFF researcher Chris Rodda’s logic, that means Weinstein got an award from an anti-Catholic group. Que scandal!
Looks like Weinstein’s researcher needs to learn how to do a little…research.
Ummm … They’re still called the YMCA. They just made a decision a few years ago that it would be OK to refer to themselves as “the Y” since that’s what so many people call them anyway. They are a still Christian organization.
This is their CURRENT mission:
“With a mission to put Christian principles into practice through programs that build a healthy spirit, mind and body for all, our impact is felt when an individual makes a healthy choice, when a mentor inspires a child and when a community comes together for the common good.”
Just admit it, JD, you embarrassed yourself here and there’s no way you can wiggle your way out of it no matter how many long and rambling comments you post.
Their official name is the YMCA. You can tell, because that is what they say on their own website:
“Affirming the Paris Basis adopted in 1855 as the ongoing foundation statement of the mission of the YMCA, at the threshold of the third millennium we declare that the YMCA is a world-wide Christian, ecumenical, voluntary movement for women and men with special emphasis on and the genuine involvement of young people and that it seeks to share the Christian ideal of building a human community of justice with love, peace and reconciliation for the fullness of life for all creation.”
http://www.ymca.int/who-we-are/mission/
@Donalbain
That isn’t technically their website. That’s the website of the World Alliance of YMCAs. Still…
@Chris Rodda
And that is related to the Summer Kids Club how? Its evident you’re both unable to support your implications the Y conducted a “religious” event.
It seems, then, that even outside observers with an agenda can recognize that the US military hosts secular events on a fairly regular basis, despite accusations to the contrary. Well done, you two, you’ve strengthened the point.
JD … I never said that anything inappropriate was done at this particular summer camp. We’re just laughing at the irony of you picking the YMCA for a post with the headline “US Marine Base Hosts Secular Summer Camp.” You do see the irony, don’t you?
@Chris Rodda
The point here is, contrary to some assertions, secular events routinely occur on military installations. This was one. You don’t seem to understand the meaning of the word “irony.”
I notice you substituted the word “inappropriate” where I had used “religious.” Clever. Nice to know you support religious freedom and all.
LOL … I can’t believe you’re still unable to admit that you just made a stupid mistake. You must be a really annoying person to be around.
Rodda/Donalbain – You still haven’t shown how the camp was not secular. If the camp itself was secular – regardless of the association that hosted it – the post is correct. A US Marine base hosted a secular camp.
We’re not saying the post is incorrect. We’re saying it’s FUNNY! Lighten up! JD made a funny!
What makes it even funnier is the hole JD has dug himself into in the comments here, especially comment #7. Apparently JD missed the mission statement on the website he linked to in his post to the Camp Lejeune YMCA page. The following is the mission statement on the Camp Lejeune YMCA website (not the website of the World Alliance of YMCAs, which JD attempted to claim in his comment was so different from the “secular” Camp Lejeune YMCA):
“The mission of the Armed Services YMCA of the USA, on behalf of the National Council of Young Men’s Christian Associations of the United States of America, is to put Christian principles into practice through educational, recreational, social and religious programs and services for military personnel, both single and married, and their family members.”
Looks like God’s own fighter pilot needs to learn how to do a little…research.
@Chris Rodda
To borrow your phrase, “Umm…,” no. It wasn’t missed. Their mission statement changes nothing about the article above, and you have yet to say anything that changes the fact the US military has, as it often does, hosted a secular recreational activity for its families.
That you think it should change something is another indicator of the MRFF’s little problem with freedom: You believe people should be treated differently based on what they believe, not on what they do. Fortunately, that’s not how America works.
If you just have to “LOL,” have at it. But your comments haven’t affected the veracity of the article.
JD – it is very difficult to find secular summer camps in NC. Even “Operation Purple” weeks are awarded at Camp Rockfish, so I personally haven’t had an opportunity to enjoy secular camps hosted by the military. As a military wife and Fayetteville resident of 17 years, the only option until recently was 4H Camp; we now have the option of Camp Quest SC (my son had a wonderful time this year).
I do, however, agree that the military hosts many secular events for families. In fact, I find festivals, concerts, fairs, etc are decidedly LESS religious than similar events hosted locally outside of Ft. Bragg. It is nearly impossible to attend an event in Fayetteville/Cumberland County without someone handing my children a religious token of some sort, or passing by booths hosted by local churches.
As a secular parent I have no issue with YMCA hosted events. I’ve been a mom for over 24 years, and my children have never (to my knowledge) been exposed to religious teachings or symbolism at the Y. My daughter’s after-school program is now run by the YMCA and that’s just fine with me. I think it’s unfair to assume that the YMCA focuses the “C”; our personal experience is that the Y offers secular programs and activities regardless of the fact that they are “founded on Christian principles”.
I just want to make it clear that I didn’t say there was anything religious about the events the YMCA funs for military kids. We haven’t had a single complaint at MRFF about the YMCA, so I assume that they stick to the rules. MRFF has also never had any complaints about Catholic chaplains or the Catholic chaplain endorsing agency. Does this mean the Catholic chaplain endorsing agency is secular? Of course not. It just means that they are a religious organization that obeys the rules, as the YMCA also appears to be.
All that said, the irony of JD’s post is still funny. Seriously, out of all the non-religious military summer camps he could have picked for his ‘atheists don’t need their own stuff’ series, he picks one run by an organization with “Christian” in its name? That is funny. :-)
I also want to say that there IS a difference between events and activities that just happen to be non-religious and events and activities that are specifically intended for atheists, humanists, freethinkers, etc. What do you almost always see as a selling point of Christian events, groups, and activities? That one of their purposes is “fellowship” and meeting others of their faith. A non-religious event or activity, while it might be something that non-religious service members and their children can enjoy along with religious people, does not provide “fellowship” for the non-religious people. Only events and activities that are specifically intended for the atheist/humanist/freethinker community can do that. Think about it. If you are new on a base and you belong to a religion, you can immediately meet like-minded people simply by attending the chapel and religious groups and events. But if you are new on a base and are an atheist, etc., you are not going to be able to find out who the like-minded people on your base are by attending events that both religious and non-religious people attend. What if you’re an atheist parent and want to meet other atheist parents to hang out with and have your kids meet their kids? That can only happen at events that are specifically intended for the atheist/humanist/freethinker community, where the only people there would be the other non-religious people. Can you understand that, JD?
@Chris Rodda
You’ve digressed beyond the point of the military hosting non-religious events, though your “out of all the non-religious military summer camps he could have picked” statement seems to support the point made.
Now, you seem to be saying it is an inherent characteristic of atheists to want to “fellowship” with ideological adherents. Some atheists here have disagreed. Further, I refer you to Neil deGrasse Tyson, an agnostic who atheists like to claim as one of their own:
In the end, you’re attributing characteristics to a “group” that has no form or organization (never mind agreed upon ideologies) — something the government needs to be able to “support” the “group.”
Your description is no different from the challenges any person has while serving the military. Aspiring divers, chess players, Mary Kay addicts, Mustang enthusiasts, scuba divers, Toastmasters, etc, etc, etc, all have to find their fellow “faith adherents” whenever the military bids them move. It’s an unfortunate fact of military life (though some people actually relish the dynamic nature of the life).
With all of those plentiful groups and events, there is no indication the US military treats any non-religious event/club differently than any other — contrary to some frequent accusations.
If a military member decides he wants to form a group on base to fellowship with like-minded glass-blowers, he can get in line right next to the Brony sponsor who wants to do the same thing (though they “only watch for the storyline”). That is an important point, however: Somebody has to start the “fellowship.” You can’t just blame the government for not answering a question that wasn’t asked.
Somebody has to start the fellowship? You mean like the atheists who started the group at Fort Bragg that wasn’t even allowed to officially meet on post? Would a group of glass-blowers or skiers or chess players be denied the right to officially meet on post? Or would they get to start a club for their hobby whose announcements of events could be listed in the base newspaper so that others with a similar interest would know that there was such a group?
@Chris Rodda
Yes. Contrary to popular belief, the military cannot yet read minds.
Uh oh, playing loose with the facts again, are you? Griffith applied through the chaplain program. Any non-religious group that applied for religious recognition would get the answer he did. Implying “persecution” over that is like complaining about being unable to get a Big Mac in the Burger King drive thru or bemoaning the fact you can’t get dental work done at the DMV. Even children know you need to ask your question to the correct person. Atheists at other military facilities have done exactly that.
Possibly, as it is at the military’s discretion. That said, I know of no group (who wasn’t already banned for another reason) who has ever filed a proper request and then been denied — including atheists. (There have been individual events denied based on an assessment of the event itself, not the nature of the group.) I notice you used the word “officially,” which means you probably realize many types of groups meet “unofficially” all the time.
You generally only need “official” recognition if you want group access to limited base resources. But if all you want to do is meet, you may not need “official” recognition, depending on the branch of service and specific location. After all, when was the last time you [generically speaking] saw the cops walking through the post food court, library, conference rooms, or gazebos asking people if they had permission slips to congregate?
It might make a difference as to whether the ad is allowed in the “official notices” section, but otherwise ads in the paper rarely have anything to do with recognition, as it would be up to Public Affairs or whatever organization runs the base paper. However, I have seen a long-running “freethinker” group ad in a base paper. They met for lunch weekly, if I recall correctly.
You asked a lot of very easy questions with obvious answers. Were you trying to make a point, or did you honestly not know that your own client asked the wrong office for recognition as an official club?