USAFA Relationship with Atheists “Bears Fruit”
Despite Michael Weinstein’s continuous ridicule of the US Air Force Academy, Jason Torpy and his Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers paint quite a different picture — and Torpy looks like a calm foil to Weinstein’s blustering grandstanding:
Continuing what is now nearly a year of collaboration, the Air Force Academy has made significant changes to training as a result of reviews by the Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers…
This effort continues previous successes between MAAF and the Academy…Continuing a trend of over a year, MAAF collaborative efforts have led to tangible action – humanist alternatives for trainees, meaningful changes in policy, effective diversity training, and continuing collaboration with nontheist leaders.
Torpy’s characterization is in stark contrast to Weinstein’s unceasing criticisms and accusations of Constitutional violations, criminal acts, and general lawlessness at a government institution run amok. There is one important distinction, however. Torpy claims primarily to be after equality for humanists and atheists, with a large focus on the military chaplaincy. Weinstein, by contrast, continues to claim Christians are trying to take over USAFA (and the world). Side by side, Torpy highlights Weinstein for the fringe conspiracy theorist he is.
As for the substantive content of Torpy’s remarks, it is difficult to assess as he describes only the “changes” he suggested and does not provide the complete material or the necessary context. Much of it seems semantic and remains open to interpretation.
It is true Weinstein and Torpy have occasionally co-signed letters in their shared activism. (Chris Rodda enacted quick damage control the last time Torpy and Weinstein were out of step with each other.) It is also true Torpy hasn’t always been on the side of mutual respect and religious freedom in the military. Still, Torpy risks positioning himself as a legitimate voice with reference to religion and USAFA, as Weinstein fades into irrelevancy.
I would thank you for the compliment, but I see nothing on the blog aside from self-serving Christian propaganda. I want to be gracious, but all I see is an excuse to recycle your previous undeserved attacks on the Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. You attempt to draw a false division between MAAF and MRFF. While I get to promote a positive message of inclusion and support for atheists and humanists, MRFF is specially resourced and focused on legal challenges to legitimate Constitutional violations. I rarely stoop to posting on your blog because all I see is a one-sided, intolerant Christian Dominionist agenda to subvert the Constitution. There are plenty of well-intentioned Christians who are honestly applauding our efforts and helping increase equal opportunity and respect in the military, but you have a long road of reform to count yourself in their ranks.
JD, there is no claim that the full spectrum of Christians are intent upon a Christian America Amendment to the US Constitution. Wouldn’t you agree that life would be simpler if such an amendment became part of the constitution?
@Jason Torpy
Lots of adjectives making attributions without evidence. Care to provide an example to support that accusation?
1. Paternal Shepherding Cult (Cadets for Christ) operates freely on Air Force Academy.
2. Senior Cadet allowed to tie AFA to Christian proselytizing before command backs down.
3. Superintendent withholds CSAF directive on religion neutrality from cadets for weeks.
4. Faculty member testifies for MRFF, his service dog poisoned.
5. Full size Christian cross placed on newly constructed Pagan Worship Circle.
6. Christian Bible study held at Superintendent’s private quarters.
7. Announcements and fliers promoting Christian film distributed at at main dining hall.
8. Operatives from major Dominionist Christian groups given 24/7 access to cadets.
9. Dominion Christian speaker dominates AFA National Prayer Luncheon.
10. Gen. Born, 250 other staff and faculty sign Christmas message in the base newspaper that said, “Jesus Christ is the only real hope for the world.”
11. Cadets not attending chapel required to march in “Heathen Flight.”
More…
12. Focus on the Family materials and brochures featured at USAF Academy Visitors Center.
13. Free transport for cadets to Focus on the family, New Life Church and Navigators operate from Academy grounds.
14. Agents of religious organizations issued military style clothing and allowed in restricted areas during alerts and close downs.
There are more. Here is somedocumentation.
Edited by Admin.
Richard…what part of the constitution did any of the above violate? (even though much of what you state is false)
How many lawsuits has Mikey won against the Academy? (hint…ZERO)
p.s. Do you know who put the Cross on the Circle?
@JJC
A Christian America amendment to the constitution would be fine if America were actually a Christian Nation. It is not just the number of Christians who live here or the influence that Christianity, specifically Dominionism, has on political leaders. One must actually demonstrate an original, expressed desire for Ameirca to be founded on religious belief. Shortly after George Washington’s last presidency America signed a treaty with Tripoli in which article 11 was placed confirming that in no way was America founded on Christian principles and was in fact a secular nation. Thinking people have come to understand that America is a secular and pluralistic nation in which all religions may flourish but none dominate. A Christian Amendment will probably not be made unless of course through seditious Christian acts.
@Lt Frank
Hi Lt. Frank. I have three posts and probably this one awaiting moderation. I guiess JD wants some time to study my remarks so as to make spectacular responses. LOL My last post that was awaiting “moderation” took almost 24 hours. Since I never post obscenities, direct insults, epithets, and describe only those heinous acts which I have witnessed by so called religious folks, I don’t understand why I am moderated.
In any case one of my “to be moderated” posts contains a URL to some documentation you may find interesting.
@Richard
Your list seems to be an attempt to answer the question directed toward Torpy. The question was a justification for his characterization of this website. Nothing on your list supports his accusations against this site.
Please find a link to something more reputable than a socialist website.
@JD
Sorry,
I misunderstood the direction of the posts. I thought you were talking about the AFA.
Your site does lean a bit to the right religiously but I haven’t seen any constitution busting material here. Now you have defended some real edgy stuff but hey, free speech and all that.
However, at least my list does describe some of the improprieties we have seen at the AFA. You know, being an Atheist in the Armed Forces is a little like being a Christian in the Muslim Army. Atheists have been the butt of criticism and treated with disdain. You may not have personally participated in this derision but I think you have occasionally spoken in derogatory terms about those who do not subscribe entirely to what can only be described as a somewhat militant view of Christianity. Mikey Weistein, for example.
The list I posted reveals a penchant for pervasive coercive proselytizing and a unilateral support for all things Christian from AFA personnel. I couldn’t find any buses to Synagogues or Catholic Churches or Jewish or Catholic religious organizations operating cult-like groups. Are there just that many more Evangelical Christians than any other religious group or have the others been thrown UNDER the bus? LOL
@Lt Frank
Lt. Frank. I’m having a tough time believing you are in the Armed Forces. Of those things I listed were many referring to favored Christian status by active duty military personnel. This, in itself, is a gross violation of Supreme Court rulings. For you not to immediately recognize the transgressions is disappointing and a bit frightening.
AFA commanders giving preferential treatment to Christian organizations to the exclusion of others. Officers Christian Fellowship, Campus Crusade for Christ Military Mission, The Navigators, Focus on the Family, The Family Research Council, New Life Church and Cadets for Christ are just a few of the many imposing Dominion Christian organizations with carte blanche to operate proselytizing efforts at any venue on the academy.
Featuring exclusive Christian materials and literature in Visitor locales is yet another brazen ignorance of proper protocol. (I don’t know if it has been removed as a result of the last few flaps).
Military installations must remain religion neutral irrepsective of the personal passions and beliefs of senior officers, NCO’s, EM’s or cadets. Actively bringing one’s personal religious beliefs into the military structure with implied or open intent to proselytize outside of permitted venues and times is a criminal action.
Hi Lt’ Frank. Don’t look for the URL to the website I posted to confirm my material. JD thought it was too socialistic so he edited it it out. A form of censorship but one that is, sadly, allowed. The website really tears a hole in JD’s platform but letting you decide that for yourself is out of the question. He is protecting you from the scourge of liberal information. Of course it is de riguer for conservatives to censor information as they cannot effectively debate it.
Hi JD! Just doing a “flyby” and thought I would say hello.
Richard – well done, sir. I’m sorry your source was moderated. That is sad.
@Albatross
Hi Albatross, thanks for your sentiments. Censorship is so typical when politics and religion are being discussed. Of course, it’s not real censorship because JD’s blog is private and he can admit or reject anyone for any reason. JD has a morbid fear of Socialism even though his religion is one of the largest socialist networks in the world. But I guess to him, religious socialism is okay whereas political socialism is taboo.
I was musing the other day about this blog being a “Ministry.” Don’t you have to be a minster to have a ministry? I guess it could be a lay ministry.
Haven’t heard back from Lt. Frank for a while.
Albatross are you now or were you a pilot at some time? What do/did you fly? Any combat experience?
1. Cadets are free to join whatever Bible study they’d like to. They’re also free to not join any.
2. Military members are free to raise support for charities, and the AFA emphasizes community service. Also, the cadet wasn’t “allowed” to send that email; he never asked permission.
3. The CSAF directive was for commanders, not cadets.
4. That’s not a certain fact.
5. This one’s been discussed plenty. The investigation found that it wasn’t a hate crime. Christians had used that site for a long time before it became a pagan worship circle, and no one knew it had become a pagan worship circle.
6. People can’t hold Bible studies in their homes?
7. Never saw those, and I eat there just about every day.
8. You mean pastors and lay people are allowed to talk to cadets, and vice versa? Yeah, they are. But leaders of atheist/Buddhist/pagan groups are, too.
9. I don’t know much about that one.
10. Didn’t see that.
11. During BCT, cadets not going to chapel do have to get back to their rooms somehow. There are two options for doing this: flow control, and marching in flights. In the four years I’ve been here – three of which I’ve been a basic or cadre – I’ve never heard anyone call it a heathen flight. Anyone who did would be summarily dismissed from training.
12. I’ve never seen those there, but it makes sense that one tourist attraction in the Springs has brochures for another tourist attraction. I’ve seen that on every vacation I’ve gone on.
13. I can only speak to the free transportation to theMILL (at New Life). That transportation is organized either by other cadets going there, or New Life. At Bible study, cadets may offer rides to theMILL. Or, New Life can drive one of their vans up and bring cadets out. If a non-Christian group wanted to do the same, they easily could. No where is the government involved. There have never been any buses.
14. I have never seen nor heard of that happening, and I’m pretty close to my SPIRE leader. He’s not an agent, and he’s never been issued military style clothing.
@Nathan
Thank you for your input. I can see that your take on the list is from an entirrely different perspective.
The Air Force Academy is hardly just another tousirt attraction. It is a military installation and academy. Visitors are welcome but that is not its primary mission. The AFA and its chain of command must also comply with UCMJ requirements and the US and Colorado State Constitutions.
Commingling religion and the military is unconstitutional. Sectarian poroselytizing is prohibited.
Former superintendent Gen. Rosa has a few things to say about this. GO HERE:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/national/04airforce.html
@Nathan
Hi Nathan,
My last post seems to have disappeared. So I’ll send this URL again. If not deleted it will explain a lot of what has happeded at the AFA.
GO HERE: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/national/04airforce.html
Rats now my last post has reappeared. Sorry for the duplication
@Nathan
Well Nathan, I guess JD is not going to allow me to post the URL to former AFA Superintendent Gen. Rosa’s remarks RE; Religious intolerance at the AFA. My previous two posts containing that URL are either deleted or the URL edited out. Oh well, I can see where those remarks would put a hole in JD’s arguments that Christian hegemony doesn’t exist at the AFA.
Never figured JD for deleting INFO sites.
@Richard
Your reference to General Rosa, as well as the accusations Nathan didn’t recognize, were from the 2005 timeframe. This has been a cadet frustration for years: You’re recycling old stories as proof of the current environment.
@JD
JD, Rosa’s story is part of the history of this dust up. 2004 is not ancient history. It’s the beginning of ther exposure of terrible religious tyranny at the AFA. It must be allowed, otherwise you might as well say the Mayflower didn’t cross the ocean to America.
“Commingling religion and the military is unconstitutional.”
That’s too bad for all the people of faith in the military. What are they gonna do? I guess we’ll have to get rid of all the chapels on military bases. And all military members will have to be atheists.
“Sectarian poroselytizing is prohibited.” Displaying a brochure for a tourist attraction isn’t proselytizing. Or would displaying a brochure for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo mean that the military endorses that zoo above all others, and everyone should become a lifetime member?
The article you linked is from 2005. We have a new Supt, new Comm, and new Wing. Anything happen recently? Yeah, we’ve had problems in the past. But we’re working to eliminate those problems. And we’re making good progress.
@Richard
That’s an excellent example.
You saying accusations from 2005 represent the current environment at USAFA is like saying the voyage of the Mayflower — which took 2 months by sail on a leaky wooden vessel capable of carrying about 150 people — represents the current sea faring environment in the Atlantic. Carnival Cruise lines would disagree.
Things have happened (and some would say changed) since then. You not only refuse to admit it, you dismiss every positive story as a proactive part of a grand conspiracy (without any proof, naturally). It’s almost as if you want there to be some kind of scandal at USAFA, despite the evidence to the contrary.
Richard…once again, you repeat what you “hear” not what you “know”.
Nathan covered everything very well. I will just add that the cross at the Falcon Circle was totally mishandled. As Nathan said, Cadets used that hill for years…for their own spiritual enrichment. They had no idea that a person from the earth-centered background was converting it into a designated area. (FACT) Another fact…this area is public space. Anyone can go there, to include the public. It has never been determined who put a cross there, but Christian cadets took the hit (unfairly I might add). Once again, you and a few others think you know the story, but you don’t. You repeatedly post one line statments, but you have no basis for your statement. Suggest you check the facts before you post what you assume to be true. Then, you might have credibility.
Religious freedom is a wonderful thing…everything you’ve posted above is legal (proven time and time again).
Something else you may want to do: Talk to 10 or 20 random cadets. Ask them if they’ve been treated unfairly, forced to convert, etc. You may be stunned to hear that all is well.
Nobody has provided any evidence of cadets (keep in mind they are adults and are very bright) being forced to convert to be Evengelical Christians.
Gentlemen, the Rosa story is part of the history of Christian improprieties at the AFA. There are some key points made in Rosa’s speech such as it would take at least six years to clean up rampant command-centered and coercive Christian proselytizing. This means that there was a period of blatant Christian misconduct prior to his appointment as superintendent.
We are now in the 6th year of his prediction but since the time of his departure, the AFA has relapsed back into the nest of Dominionist misfits we now see running things.
The Air Force Acadmy is not a unique Dominionist problem. Dominion Christianity is a giant national network well established in many armed forces training facilities, service academies, bases and even combat zones. It has well established goals and enough operatives in place to undertake the ground work for the changes called for in Pat Robertson’s book, “THe Secret Kingdom.”
At this point, Dominionists, in addition to targeting non-Christians and non-believers, are in the process of upgrading exisiting Christians to more compliant and well trained members of an all Christian fighting force. In a video produced at the Academy with the full cooperation of the chain of command, the Campus Crusade for Christ Military Mission which details the process of “Christianizing” the cadet wing, the narrator emphasizes the final outcome of commingling Christian proselytizing with standard training as making cadet graduates “PAID GOVERNMENT MISSIONARIES FOR CHRIST.”
Unlike the brash and extroverted evangelicals we see in the civilian sector, the AFA command structure has had to keep much of their proselytizing activities under the radar. Since a closer watch on their movements by MRFF and other watch dog organizations, much of the proselytizing operation has gone underground and covered up. Now, much of the work is being shipped off-base where cadets are subject to intense proselytizing by outfits such as The Navigators, Focus on the Family, New Life Church, Jesus World Outreach, The Family Research Council and other rabid Dominionist organizations.
So do not expect to see Gen. Gould marching down the street carrying a cross.
The purpose of this national Dominionist cabal as explained by Robertson and a number of other Christian Dominionists is to eventually use American Armed Forces to effect the conversion of world populations to Christianity with those who resist to be “cast into the Lake of Fire.” This world conversion, it is believed, will accommodate an accelerated return of Jesus Christ.
Once again Richard…you lose all credibility when you can’t back up your claims with facts. LAME!
How many cadets have been forced to convert? c’mon…tell everyone
Who put the cross on the hill above the chapel?
So now everything is “underground”??? I honestly can’t stop laughing here. Conspiracies galore…being fueled by Richard. Don’t have any facts, just make up a conspiracy and you get attention. But that’s about all you get. It’s all hype.
@Lt. Frank
Hi Lt. Frank. I’m sorry you can’t be shown the over 300 client case complaints filed with MRFF as a result of the “non-existent” Christian hegemony fostered by the AFA chain of command or the over 23,000 complaints received thus far by MRFF from all armed forces sources, detailing those things which I have told you. As you might guess, these client case complaints are confidential for more than one reason, reprisals being a prominent reason.
In your particular case the coercive Christian proselytizing must be such a common occurence that it doesn’t seem out of place to you. That, or you choose to ignore it or maybe you are complicit in such activities and wish not to admit it.
In any case why would anyone go to the lengths to which MRFF has gone if no such events ever happened? What could the reward be to expend the time, money and effort to chase down these heinous crimes if they were not, in fact,real? And why would the principals of MRFF place themselves and their families in such jeopardy from Christian hate mongers as witnessed by the hundreds of death threats, vicious e-mails, property damage and need for 24 hour security? Where there is a bullet wound a gun also exists. And thus where coercive proselytizing exists there too, you will find a Dominionst.
Once again, I’m speaking to you, not MRFF. What facts do “YOU” have?
You continually throw things out there and when asked to back it up, you can’t. Why would anyone believe you?
You posted things you believe to be true…now back them up with facts. If you do, I’ll give you credit.
Once again, I’ll ask:
How man have been forced to convert? If you truly believe everything you posted above, surely you must have some facts, right?
Who put the cross up on the hill above the chapel?
Lastly, I can provide you a few good reason for MRFF to go to such lengths.
1) Publicity…the more publicity the more $$$.
2) Money…clearly the more Mikey stirs the pot, the more $$$ rolls in. MRFF needs the money to pay it’s leader half of it’s donations. (by the way, can you name just 3 other non-profits who pay it’s leader half of it’s incoming donations???)
Oh, how many lawsuits has MRFF won against the Academy? (if things were as bad as you say they are, don’t you think they would have won at least 1???
Lastly, you do realize we’re talking about adults here, right? Your posts lead everyone to believe that cadets are children and can’t think for themselves…you really insult cadets when you make such insane insinuations.
@Lt. Frank
You must think I am naive.
If money were a reason for trying to maintain religious freedom at the Academy Mr. Weinstein seems to have spent more than MRFF could ever recover pursuing the irregularities.
Of course if you are suggesting that Mr. Weinstein is interested only in the money and somehow benefits finanically from taking action against religious oppression and considering Mr. Weinstein is Jewish, it would frankly sound a tad anti-semitic to me. Are you suggesting a profit motive instead of an honorable use of funds by Mr. Weinstein to combat Christian hegemony in the military?
I am a former volunteer for MRFF and am therefore privy to some of the information they have. I volunteered for almost 7 years. As a former Air Force Officer and Rescue Pilot I felt proud to assist those in the grasp of command centered and coercive Christian proselytizing at the AFA and other points world wide. I received multiple wounds during my two tours of duty in Vietnam and they are now slowing me down somewhat. But my wounds were not to my head but rather a larger more fleshy area one may consider the nether regions.
Although I am taking it slower Iam still a strong supporter of MRFF and its goal of maintaining religious freedom in the armed forces.
As to”conversions” both from non-Christian to Christian or from moderate Christian to Blazing Dominionist, I am not sure there were any. But the problem is in the attempts not the results. Of the number that I am sure were selected for advanced command centered coercive proselytizing, I am sure that very few were actually influenced or may even have humored their tormentors into believing they were caving. I do know that there were several female cadets in the “Warrick Paternal Shepherding Cult” who were deterred from the curriculum, one even marrying a young man selected for her by the Warricks.
As to winning law suits, I can’t remember how many MRFF filed against AFA personnel or command. There is no dishonor in losing the kind of actions Mr. Weinstein undertook against the AFA and it’s leaders because, at the very least, the information about the religious improprieties was disseminated.
What must be remembered is that coming at the the Air Force, the cherished Air Force Academy and Christianity, despite it’s turn to the dark side, would not be well received by the courts in which an American flag hangs prominently. One would have to have not only a smoking gun but the corpse and burial plans. Courts are hesitant to find against Christian causes and that’s only natural. Christianity is deeply inmbedded in American history and lore. No one wants to be seen as a detractor.
Now, since I have given you information about me, MRFF, etc., care to tell me what your interest is in all of this? Are you really a “Lt.,” active duty or retired. Or is Lt. a seudonym?
I know JD has multiple personalities are you one of his? LOL
@Lt. Frank
First, I must disagree that Richard has lost any credibility for the lack [or ability] of showing you “private/confidential” information. I can assure you that at least five complaints against coercive Christian proselytizing did exist because I submitted them. I doubt there many like me that actually read/reply to the posts here because I assume they don’t know about it and can’t share their information.
Second, with regard to Mikey’s salary…that’s really none of anyone’s business; and as a full supporter of MRFF, I would say no amount of money can repay Mikey for everything he has done for the US Military. You have no proof (or facts) that what he pays himself isn’t reasonable to fight against coercive Christian proselytizing and the expenses that go with that–regardless what other non-profits pay it’s leader(s). If he buys a Lamborghini, I will relent.
Oh, Mikey doesn’t need to win any lawsuits, just the fact they are filled is enough to get correction going most of the time. Even if they get thrown out change is almost alway inevitable (yes, I have proof…me!).
Lastly, you do realize you are blogging with adults here, right? Your posts lead me to believe that you are a child and can’t think for yourself…you really insults us when you make such insane insinuations.
P.S. Also, thank you JD for providing this website, it is very informative and enlightening. Happy Thanksgiving.
@watchtower
IRS rules on public disclosure by non-profit charities, which Weinstein runs and from which he pays himself, say otherwise.
No offense intended, but anyone can lodge a complaint over anything. The larger question is whether or not it was an institutional issue that was validated.
Actually, he got a Lotus. But that’s beside the point. The issue hasn’t even necessarily been the absolute value of the compensation he gives himself. It has been the fact he runs a tax-exempt charity, and the number one “expense,” totalling more than half of all tax-exempt donations, is his paycheck. As noted before, this is well out of step with other leaders of (much larger) organizations with similar ideologies — by orders of magnitude.
If the main thing for which MRFF monies are used is Weinstein’s personal compensation — and Weinstein’s own documents say they are — then critiques that may connect increasing donations to increasing his “take home pay” are valid.
First and foremost, thank you for your service.
Regarding the Warrick’s…what laws did they break? I didn’t know that cadets could even get married. Oh wait, did you fail to mention that she may have “graduated” and is a “Lt” herself? And that she is an “adult” and is quite capable of deciding to get married for “herself”?
I can assure you that I am not JD, nor have I ever met JD. My interest…simply to stand up for cadets and challenge those who don’t know the facts. I don’t claim to know all the facts myself, but know enough to raise the BS flag on much of what is being said.
Lastly, I don’t think it really matters if I really am a Lt., active duty or retired. I find it interesting that you want to know when MRFF doesn’t reveal their clients (which they certainly are within their rights). But, if you really must know, Lt. Frank isn’t something I made up.
“Private/Confidential”. Ok…I just started laughing uncontrollably once again. Lame!
Mikey’s salary is everybody’s business…it’s a “non-profit”. Nice try!
I’ve never met a dominionist.
A Christian is, by definition, a missionary.
watchtower: “…you really insults us when you make such insane insinuations.”
———————
That’s just laugh out loud funny right there.
Also, I take the above statement as a very nice compliment! Thanks!
Isn’t it interesting that neither richard/watchtower will say who put the cross on the hill!
They continually bring it up, but they know not what they speak of. Here’s a clue…when you bring something up, wait until you have the facts. Presumption of innocence is a wonderful thing!
@Lt Frank
Lt. Frank you said: First and foremost, thank you for your service.
Regarding the Warrick’s…what laws did they break? I didn’t know that cadets could even get married. Oh wait, did you fail to mention that she may have “graduated” and is a “Lt” herself? And that she is an “adult” and is quite capable of deciding to get married for “herself”?
——————————————————————————————————————
Actually, I did fail to mention that she may have just been engaged during her time at the AFA and married after graduation. My point however, was that it was arranged by the Warricks according to a letter from her mother. She is now lost to her family and submits graciously to her husband in all things. It is my belief that she has resigned her commission so that she may not be in a position to supervise males nor be required to teach or inform them.
As to the Warricks breaking laws, I have already told you that this cult has operated below the radar for some time and made sure that all bases were covered. Like the Branch Davidians they operate behind closed doors and do not frequently communicate outside their own membership. As we were not aware of David Koresh’s stash of automatic weaponry and explosives it is conceivable that the Warricks may well have a few surprises for those who inquire too closely about their operation. I bring the Warricks into this discussion primarily to demonstrate the similarities between a cult of this nature and those of Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, Rev. Sun Myung Moon and others.
@Lt Frank
You said: Isn’t it interesting that neither richard/watchtower will say who put the cross on the hill!
——————————————————————————————————————-
I do not know who put the cross in the Pagan Worship Circle. I am, however, a student of deductive reasoning and I can assure you that having given this transgression a great deal of thought it is clear to me that it would have been some disgruntled Christians.
Pagan worshippers have waited such a long time for this Circle that to stir up the Christian commander by placing the cross there themselves would be ludicrous.
What you must remember is that religious supremacy is akin to a fixated mental problem and is manifested in many ways. It is my guess that some cadets, perhaps even permament station personnel may have taken the Prayer Circle as a diect threat to their enhanced Christian beliefs and meant the cross as a warning.
@Nathan
Nathan says: I’ve never met a dominionist. A Christian is, by definition, a missionary.
——————————————————————————————————————–
A missionary by definition is a Dominionist. Evangelizing has been taken to the outer limits of good Christianship. Some see Jesus words in Matthew 28:16-20 in which he says to bring his message and gospel to the world and make disciples of them, as a firm commandment to convert or kill. You will note that the great commission says “MAKE” disciples, not suggest discipleship. Dominionists believe in the invincibility of Christianity and it’s premier religious role in the world. In Genesis 1:26 God says that man should dominate the Earth and everything on it, its skies or under its waters. Christian Dominonism follows this concept to the point of making Christian Dominion over all men, animals, etc.
Dominionism is a clear cut mission to elevate Christianity to world wide supreme political/religious status and form a government led by Christian men.
Encouraged by Rousas John Rushdoony in the 70’s who founded Christian Reconstructionism, Dominionists have been working overtime to spread the faith by whatever means possible.
The AFA problems are part of that single minded agenda with the added responsibility of converting, training and employing bright young Christian officers to lead our armed forces in world conquest for Jesus.
Well, obviously she is an adult and graduated from a very prestigiuos institution. She’s quite capable of making decisions for herself. Did you take the time to speak with her? Do you know where she is today? Do you know what she’s doing? Is she happy? Hmmmmm
Operated “under the radar”? Really? Amazing that they are soooo skilled in that.
Once again, you bring stuff up, but don’t have the facts to back yourself up. Why don’t you just go up there and see for yourself instead of repeating what others are saying.
@Richard
Once again, look at your own words. “Deductive reasoning”??? What about presumption of innocence? The cadets took a beating for that mainly because of MRFFs accusations which were not backed up. You do realize that the hill is in a public place open to visitors, correct? You do realize that visitors go up that hill all of the time, correct? Could it have possibly been done by someone other than a cadet? You do realize that there was another circle at another location that most of the cadets knew about, correct? And you knew that the previous circle never had any problems? Some things to think about…
@Lt Frank
I certainly believe it could be someone other than a cadet. My first guess is that it would be cadets under close supervision. My second thought is it could be just about any disgruntled Christian from the private or public sector. It doesn’t matter which Christians did it it only matters that Christins did it.
As for the presumption of innocense, that works well where a case is being adjudicated but given the large number of offenders at the AFA and their nefarious activities it is difficult to presume any of them is innocent. No one in a cabal, irrespective of his involvement is free from any guilty associated with it.
Everyone deserves to be presumed innocent, regardless of the situation.
Once again, you, nor anyone else has any proof Christians did it…none at all.
Either way, MRFF pointed all guns at cadets. Wrong!
I know many Christian cadets and many of the SPIRE leaders at USAFA. As I said, none of us knew the LZ had become a pagan worship circle. If we didn’t know what it was, how could it be a hate crime?
You seem to think SPIRE leaders are secret operatives who hold meetings in soundproof basements. They’re not. Chaplains stop by SPIRE. Chaplains train SPIRE leaders.
I hate it when people take a verse out of context. Yes, Jesus said to make disciples out of all nations. But have you looked at how He lived, and how His disciples lived? He never forced anyone to do anything. He let the rich man walk away sad. But He had the Good News, and He wanted to share it.
And nowhere did He advocate taking over the government. He said, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is God’s.”
@Lt Frank
I think presumed innocense is OK in many individual cases. But the AFA flap centers around events that happen in a relatively small area in which he majority is the cadet wing. Given the number of religious operatrives given access to the cadets and the number of client case complaints received from cadets, faculty and station personnel one may also assume that someone knows what is going on and by not reporting it to the chain of command themselves become complicit.
Also I think that if it is cadets who are creating religious problems it is under the direction of superiors and the detachment of Dominionist agents allowed to function there.
What we must remembetr is that in America religion, Christianty in specific, has been given preferential treatment for centuries. No taxes, virtually immunity to prosescution, favored construction permits and land aquisition, the passage of so-called “blue laws” that restrict certain secular activities on Sundays and Holy Days and much more. This favoritism and almost total absence of responisibility has led to some massive criminality in the church. Child molestation, theft, fraud, rape and other sexual misconduct and a church hierarchy that attempts to cover it all up.
It’s easy to see where Christian Supremacy in the form of Dominionism got its start.
As far as taking verses out of context let me say that it is not Jesus who wants world conquest but rather those who bastardize his words and would use him as a figurehead in their ventures.
It is they who take words like “Make disciples” out of contest.
Also, the Chaplain Corps does not fairly represent all faiths. There is a disproportionate, actually lopsided, number of Evangelical Protestant Chaplains in the armed forces.
GO HERE:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/evangelical-christianity-_n_807635.html
You’re all over the map Richard and pretty good at deflecting.
Cross…you don’t know who did it. (MRFF points to the cadets, so you think it must be cadets)
Cadet who got married via the Warrick’s…you don’t know her side of the story or the truth. (do some research for yourself, you might be pleased to know that she is doing quite well)
Forced conversions…nadda. (what are you so scared of?)
@Lt Frank
Hi Lt. Frank,
If you go to: militaryreligiousfreedom.com and enter the name Baas into the search feature the letters to MRFF and AFA by the Baas’s are there for you to examine. As for the daughter being happy, religious brainwashing can be an effective tool in someone’s belief that mental slavery is bliss. Lauren is a slave to her husband and her religion at least the warrick’s version of it. She has forsaken her family and Catholicism at the behest of mind-warping cultists. The Warricks are trafficking in brain damaged Dominion Christian sycophants. The Warricks are right up there with Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, David Koresh, Rev. Sun Myung Moon, Pat Roberston, James Dobson and others.
Logic, not MRFF, points to disgruntled Christian ‘s defiling the Pagan Prayer Circle with a cross. This is the modus operandi of religious extremists.
Again it is not the number of successful conversions that is important. It is the mindless and dangerous attempts at conversion which are the problem.
In answer to what I am afraid of: Crusades, Inquisitions, Genocides, Pogroms, Witch Hunts and other niceties foisted on the innocent over the centuries by religion run amok. Death and desgtruction from secualr sources is bad enough without millions more dying from JIhad, Dominionism, etc.
I am afraid of Dominionist Christianity and believe it, along with other extreme religion to be the most probable cause of snuffing out human life on Earth.
So no, you have not spoken to her. You only type what you have “heard” or “read” yourself. You have not spoken to her, her husband, the parents, nor the Warricks, have you?
Yeah, logic as defined by you. That and .99 cents buys you an iced tea at McDonalds…nothing more. MRFF continually blamed CADETS…fact! Now you are backing up to say “Christians”. Nice moving target there.
As you know, there have been no forced conversions. Cadets are adults and they make decisions for themselves. They are not children.
You’re afraid of a lot of things there…it’s sad that you are so focused on being afraid of things you only hear and read.
@Lt Frank
Hi Lt. Frank ,
Logic is logic. A and B are followed by C. There is a linear logic to dealing with religious hegemony. If a Dominion Christian or Islamic Jihadist can burn another at the stake, decapitate them, hang them or otherwise commit mayhem on them for a fractional difference in beliefs, then they can, by degree, bring that fundemental religious supremacy to any situation. This is an easily recognizable aberration.
The basic pathology in Dominionist Christianity is the willingness to resort to violent acts if preliminary attempts at diverting convertible prospects fails. There is an anger and frustration inherent in evangelism and an unreasoned penchant to punish all that do not comply with the distorted doctrines. In short, Dominionists suffer from a basic mental aberration that keeps them outside the scope of reason.
Cadets may be adults but they are in a precarious position. First, their brains are in a military obedience and learning mode, vulnerable to suggestion and command coercion. Secondly even a suggestion from a superior officer or upperclassman to attend Christian services or join some kind of religious sect can and will be taken as a directive. The fear of disobeying such suggestions and the reality of what has transpired with others who did not, often prompts young cadets to at least pretend they are going along with the program.
The recent posting of Christian Bible verses in Cadet Dormitories to the exclusion of other religious information is yet another demonstration of dominionist hegemony.