Atheists to Take up Ft. Bragg General’s Offer
A small but building group of atheists has decided to take LtGen Frank Helmick at his word, when in his defense of Rock the Fort at Fort Bragg he said he would
provide similar support to comparable events sponsored by similar non-Federal entities that address the needs of Soldiers on this Installation.
The group, apparently led by US Army Specialist Justin Griffith, are beginning coordination to hold an atheist “Freedom Festival” next year at Fort Bragg (complete with website):
Our goal is to organize and promote an event to be held at Ft. Bragg with the support of MWR, just like the “Rock the Fort” evangelical Christian event held on 9/25/10.
…Please join this group and help us plan an event for Skeptics, Free-Thinkers, Agnostics, Atheists, and those who just want to enjoy a day FREE from religion.
Good on’em. While the group may be ideologically at odds with most military members (a majority reportedly hold a religious faith), they are still permitted to seek support equivalent to what other ideologies receive. If they meet the requirements (including being a non-Federal entity addressing Soldiers’ needs) as Rock the Fort reportedly did, then they should absolutely expect the same support. (Ironically, the event would likely still be held under the auspices of the Chaplaincy.) Should the event succeed, it will counter the long-running canard that the military might prohibit a non-Christian event if such a group ever bothered to ask.
There may be some internal challenges to overcome. The organizers will likely have to tread carefully near what some have called the “new atheism,” which is more “anti-religion” than “pro-reason.” While the military would likely support a group espousing the latter, it may be averse to support the former, as it may be perceived as demeaning or denigrating religion.
Also, in the internet comments thus far, there remains an underlying current of antipathy toward Rock the Fort. While the atheist group is willing to have the military support their event, some are still unwilling to acknowledge the “right” of Christians to have theirs. By contrast, while some non-atheists may disagree with their ideology, they support the right of atheist Soldiers to gather in an equivalent “Freedom Festival” if they so choose. Some in the atheist group may be missing the point of true freedom.
Of course, one of the oft-repeated issues with Rock the Fort was its evangelical bent. That said, it will be interesting to see if the atheist event makes an intentional effort to avoid persuading others to their viewpoint. After all, if people join their cause (or are even just invited to do so), their “Freedom Festival” might be open to the same charge of “proselytizing” that religious events often receive.
Within the constraints of the mission, logistical limitations, and reason, the US military generally does an admirable job of supporting the spiritual (or aspiritual) needs of its members. Such protection of religious freedom is routinely a topic on this site, from the military’s support of religious events like Ramadan to military Chaplains starting “skeptic” groups.
After all the ‘bad press’ about religion and the military, some are surprised to learn the military is not only officially accommodating, it is also accommodating in practice. Perhaps someday people may realize the negative noise they hear often isn’t true.
“Religious freedom” is a firmly protected liberty in the military — for everyone, even those who are areligious.
If it is not acceptable to disparahe other faiths, would Christian groups need to steer clear of the first commandment, of Jesus’ comments about who shall enter the kingdom of heaven?
Given the article above, you’re asking the wrong question to make your point. A better question is “would a religious group be given official support for a festival whose focus was anti-atheism?”
OK.. you don’t want to answer. As usual.
I think that as religious people, you may be missing the point. The group IS NOT upset that Christian groups meet and have festivals. They ARE upset that is was recommended by their chain-of-command that they attend and that government money was spent on “Rock the Fort”. Were the event completely paid for and hosted by third party organizations, they would not have taken issue with it. The fact remains that American tax payer money was spent to spread Christianity and that money that is supposed to support the moral, welfare, and recreational needs of the soldiers was misappropriated.
Do not think that this is the rant of some radical anti-theist; that would be incorrect. I am a lifelong believer in the supreme architect but am still able to see that as a whole, religious people over step their bounds habitually and seem to lack the understanding to see it.
The role of the military in Rock the Fort was not to “spread Christianity” any more than its role in, say, a “Freedom Festival” will be to “spread atheism.”
How was this “overstep[ing] bounds?” The mere association of a government entity with an ideological group is not unConstitutional, especially when it has said it will treat all equivalent groups equally.
To deny Rock the Fort support while allowing others the same would be discrimination based on religion, directly going to the free exercise of its troops. Is it really so difficult to see that the military’s position was, in fact, the neutral one?
Also, Donalbain, the reason you never received a reply is because most atheist either don’t know about this website or don’t feel like being ridiculed by its members for their comments. I have full faith that my previous comment was be dissected as people search for typos or bad punctuation as a basis for my lack of intelligence; such is the nature of internet message boards. I offer a dare to you though: go to the blogs and message boards on the James Randi Educational Foundation and leave a comment. I dare you. It is as hospitable to you as this site is to atheist. People on discussion boards can be some inconsiderate and thoughtless.
JD, are you being purposefully hardheaded? Your argument against this new festival is that it is hypocritical by trying to spread atheism where as Rock The Fort tried to spread Christianity. I assume I am right in understanding you up to here. I have to also assume that you are aware that one of the organizers, Army Chaplain David Hillis, sent out a message to the local clergy stating that Rock The Fort was going to spread “the Christian message to all of Fort Bragg and the surrounding community!” Then you say, “The mere association of a government entity with an ideological group is not unconstitutional”. I could agree with you if the military was not using its resources and power to in an obvious and admitted attempt to proselytize its service members and their families.
This event was also done in particularly bad taste and not well thought-out in the context of us being at war with Muslim nations that accuse the US military of being an anti-Islamic crusader forces. Our military sponsoring the Christian faith is very dangerous in this effect. I have no doubt that at least 1 Islamic extremist was recruited because of this.
You assume incorrectly.
How many extremists will be recruited when an atheist group stands up and says if not for Islam, the WTC would still be standing? How many are recruited when a US President says Israel has a right to exist? How many will be recruited if DADT is repealed?
Here’s a better question: Why do you insist the US restrict its freedoms (speech, religion, liberty, life, etc) based on what a violent person or ideology threatens? Why, in your opinion, does the exercise of human freedoms make America the bad guy when others threaten violence in response? Isn’t freedom worth defending?
Or are you suggesting the US should surrender?
Hello, I am SPC Justin Griffith of the Ft Bragg Freedom Festival. Before I respond to the comments here, I’d like to say thank you for the honest appraisal of our website, JD. Our conversation was meaningful and respectful, and I was very pleased with the outcome. We knew that we were going to ‘agree to disagree’ about a few things, but apart from that, I think we agreed on the important parts.
Now, to respond to the supposed controversy leftover, I’ll briefly repeat something from the website.
“The only negative thing that came up a few times was a misunderstanding that I’d like to specifically address. We are not holding an anti-religious event. We are not holding an anti-theist, or anti-Christian event either. We are simply putting on a day of secular entertainment.
The point is not to just be the counter-event to the (offensive) Rock the Fort event. Two wrongs don’t make a right. We want nothing to do with proselytizing ‘atheism’ (or agnosticism, deism, or even humanism) to anybody else. We are not trying to say that our secular way is the only way / right way. We are simply proud of who we are, and we are celebrating in a way that we wish that the Rock the Fort organizers had chosen to do so. They didn’t. So what. We are taking the high road.”
Saying the words ‘I am an atheist’ is not the same as saying ‘I am an atheist, and you should all be atheists too’.
Very Respectfully,
JG
JG,
Well said. I hope you have a pleasant Freedom Fest.
Obviously we have lost understanding in this discussion board. Please allow me to better understand your position and your comments by asking a few questions and explaining my posts a little better.
I am unsure of what you meaning here is. Are you saying it is possible to promote any religion while at the same time not being anti-atheist? If this is so, I would like to know how. Please excuse the metaphor, but I have always understood that when you bring light into a dark room, the dark no longer exist.
As much as you may believe this true, I cannot agree with you on this point. Chaplain David Hillis’s comments left no room for interpretation. His motives behind the event were clear. The organizers of the Ft Bragg Freedom Festival have stated, repeatedly, that there is no intention to spread atheism. Do you believe that Ft Bragg Freedom Festival is being organized to spread atheism?
You are correct in this point. The government is fully entitled to associate with any and all religious groups. As a matter of fact it has an obligation to respect their interests before making any decisions. That is why we are the proud republic that we are today. Allow me to reiterate my previous statement; it was not the association with a religious group that disturbs me, it was the full fledge sponsorship. The military exist to defend the freedom of American citizens, not to endorse any religious views. I do not agree with any Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, or Buddhist events being sponsored by our military. I want to make it very clear; I do not support Ft Bragg Freedom Festival or Rock the Fort.
The militaries position on this issue is a dubious one. LtGen Helmick only made his statement after being accused of endorsing Christianity amongst Ft Bragg soldiers. Because no applications have been turned in (as far as I know) for any non-Christian events on Ft Bragg, there is no way to judge the value of this invitation. Until this happens, we must take the governments word as gold. If that sounds like a safe bet, then I recommend we turn our discussion to Agent Orange.
I will now address you concerns about violating “the free exercise of its troops”. I have never, and will never, say that soldiers should not be able to exercise their faith on their own time and with their own resources. It would go against every fiber of my being to endorse governmental regulation of religion. I stand by George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and Thomas Paine when it comes to the government’s role in religion.
Obviously not. That was by far one of the weakest points I have made in an argument since about age 10. I apologize for that one.
BJL,
also a well said post. I’m not good with the quote thing, but here’s some answers:
Are you saying it is possible to promote any religion while at the same time not being anti-atheist?
Yes, it is possible, although very difficult. Like JG, I can present my beliefs, and explain why I believe them to be true without directly criticizing atheism. The exact same is true in reverse. Additionally I may believe that another person should join my belief system, but I don’t have to say it (by words or actions). Actually it’s God’s job to change hearts-it’s my job to show others what He has done for me.
Do you believe that Ft Bragg Freedom Festival is being organized to spread atheism?
I think JD didn’t know if the Freedom Festival was to promote atheism or not. I think the organizers are not looking to directly spread atheism, but it will be spread indirectly just by presence.
Acceptance of non-Christian invitation?
The whole point of the article was to talk about the open invitation. Do you think JG is getting difficulties the Rock the Fort organizers did not get?
Spreading of views
How is Chaplain Hill’s letter categorically different than JG saying ‘these are my beliefs’ and letting whoever is around hear? If Ch. Hill said something like ‘Rock the Fort is an opportunity to convert all of the Fort and surrounding community’ then we have a different situation.
Points of agreement: I like your points about government respecting religion, how respect has made us strong and opposing government regulation of religion.
Thanks for bringing a well-thought (even if I disagree) argument to the table.
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Thank you for posting this commentary regarding the Ft. Bragg Freedom Festival. I am the organizer if Cape Fear Atheists and Agnostics and the Chair of Team Freedom – the organizing team for the Festival (SPC Griffith is no longer affiliated with CFAA or the Festival).
I appreciate the feedback your posting has provided. The goal of the Freedom Festival is to celebrate the freedom granted to us by the US Constitution to believe what we wish, without fear of persecution. MWR has offered their support to our event; we can use the same venue as “Rock the Fort”. Lt General Helmick was true to his word – we received no resistance with to our proposal.
We have no desire to promote Atheism or bash religion. We are all free to believe what we want, and we are thankful to Ft. Bragg and the members of our military (my husband included!) for protecting that right.
I would only like to correct the statement that CFAA was or the organization of the Festival was ever led by SPC Griffith.
Our website should be active within a day or so, and open for commentary from the public. We want the public’s feedback, so I invite your readers to visit our site, learn of our planned event, and comment as they wish.
Thank you, again, for the posting and the open commentary.
Geri Weaver
Organizer, CFAA
Chair: Team Freedom, Ft. Bragg Freedom Festival
Ms. Weaver,
The statement that the group was “apparently led by US Army Specialist Justin Griffith” is factually accurate. According to publicly available information, it was SPC Griffith’s letter that gave this event widespread attention on the internet. Griffith created the original event website. Griffith apparently contacted personalities to gain their support.
The only public aspect of this event that has not been apparently led by Griffith has been your Facebook page — to which Griffith had contributed until recently.
Even the new website you created appropriated content written by Griffith and altered it by backdating edits and removing his name. As a result, your competing websites are now claiming the same endorsements for different events — which is probably why you’re now having to backtrack and retract endorsements, as you did when you said the MRFF “no longer supports” your event, while it continues to support the replacement Rock Beyond Belief “led” by Griffith.
It seems you’re making a fairly concerted effort to assert your new separation from SPC Griffith. On the other hand, Fort Bragg MWR will only allow you to use the parade field if you meet the requisite attendance numbers. If the two of you are fighting over sponsors and attendees, you’re working against each other.
You might consider that nursing an ego isn’t positively contributing to your efforts.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, appears to explain these other observations.
Seems Garrison Commander, Colonel Stephen J. Sicinski reneged on his and Lt General Frank Helmick’s commitment to provide equal support for the Rock Beyond Belief event at Ft. Bragg http://rockbeyondbelief.com/ So much for taking Lt General Frank Helmick at his word.
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